Author: calpo Page 2 of 3

Yeah, that’s a game anyone can play with any terms

You are missing a VERY important point here: MLMs know how to deceive and mislead a lot of people. It’s not based on being damaged, need to see a counselor, being ignorant, or anything else. They know how to play to your strengths and desires, like any good succubus or incubus.
They know how to lie with sincerity.

And yes, once they get a person in, they are quite capable of damaging their self esteem and taking control of that person in an abusive relationship — which is what it is, an abusive relationship.

As for those of us who have been in, it’s not a matter of saying, “Okay, I was damaged and this is what to deal with,” it’s a matter of saying, “I wasn’t damaged, I walked in and fell for it. I have to deal with that.” And people here are doing that.

If you want to truly understand MLMs you’ll first have to come to terms with the point that it is not a psychological wound that lets them control people, it’s that these groups know how to fool and control people that are doing quite well.

If you insist on denying that, you will never truly understand MLMs or what is going on here.

Oh, and since you’re so fond of metaphors and comparisons, what you are doing is tantamount to saying to a woman, “The whole reason you were raped is because you’re damaged, not because of anything else. It’s your fault you’re a victim.”

See? Anyone can use a metaphor to their own purpose or do the substitution trick you played and make their point. The difference is, in this case, you are talking to people that have been violated and behaving like the statement in the last paragraph.

I would say:

from years of experience working in mental hospitals and treatment centers, and from years of watching this group, the one in denial here is you. I wish I could say this is a difference of opinion, but it isn’t.

You want to say, “If someone goes into an MLM, it’s their fault. It’s because there’s something wrong with them. The rest of us, the ones that aren’t damaged are safe. We’re okay. We can’t be sucked in to do things like that.”


And if you know me and know my posting, you know I don’t curse online. That’s how strong my sentiment is that this is just plain wrong.

We’re ALL susceptible. Semper Vigilis. Always vigilant. We can all be fooled at any point. Whatever your political opinion, you feel that either a lot of people were fooled by Bill Clinton, or a lot of people were fooled by George W. Bush. People get fooled. It’s part of the human condition and MLMs learn to watch that human condition and use it against us, the same way politicians do to manipulate us into voting for them.

I know you want to believe that only damaged people get sucked into MLMs, but that’s not true.

I went to an open meeting for QS (I won’t go into it here, but I’ll be referring to some of these companies in shorthand from now on, I figure people here know what QS is, it was and will be again AW). My then-girlfriend invited me. At that point I had (and still have) my own business. It was paying the bills and I was doing fine. I knew some of the presentation was off and I could point out a number of logic flaws in it, but toward the end, when people started talking about their success stories, I was tempted to sign up. Not because I was scared, wanted to be part of the group, or anything else. It was because they really made it seem like anyone could join and soon be making a lot of money if they worked at it. (And no, I did not join.)

And right there, you may have shown you missed a point

the one I talked about above that I thought you had caught. I’ve made a lot of friends on this board. I know many of the people here are quite intelligent. I wish a number of them lived in my area so we could get together for parties or to see a movie or to just chat.
I’ll pick on one, since I think he’ll be okay with it. I got to meet Paine once when he was in my area and we spent several hours at an ice cream parlor talking about MLMs, music the historical sites in the area, and much more. He has a great sense of humor, is quite intelligent, rather laid back, and an interesting person (hope you don’t mind that, Paine — and stop blushing!).

I’ve worked for years in residential treatment. I’ve learned how to size people up quickly. Paine is no idiot and I didn’t see any sign that he was a needy person — and, due to personal and professional history and experiences, that’s one thing I pick up on VERY QUICKLY.

People here accept responsibility for signing up with MLMs. They accept both how they were fooled and how they didn’t see what was going on.
I’ve seen that after watching and participating in this group since something like early 2014.

I have yet to see a common trait that enables MLMs to suck people in. MLMs don’t look for one thing. They have learned to be all things to all people, to emphasize to a potential recruit whatever it is that will appeal to them. Then, once the person is in, they’re fed doses of brainwashing until they think like all the other drones.

You’re looking for a “fatal flaw” (remember that from lit class, people?) that each person has. The truth is there isn’t one and for most people here it was not that they were damaged that enabled MLMs to take over their lives.

That is a critical and important misunderstanding you seem to have.

I think it was more that your wording was not quite as clear to everyone as it could have been

I see your intent, but there was enough left open that it was possible to read what you said and think that part of the issue was that MLMs preyed on those with low self esteem.

Once I even made a gaff like that with my wording and, fortunately, by then, people knew me well enough that someone asked me if I was, indeed, saying something as stupid as what I wrote. At the time I wrote it I remember I was either tired or angry and it came out as if I were saying anyone who joined an MLM was lacking in certain departments. The thing is, when I said that, I had been here long enough to know many of the people here and to have met one or two and know that isn’t true. (I am here over issues with having lost someone in an MLM and stay to help others and because I feel MLMs are one of the truly evil organizations on Earth.) Someone called me on what I said and I realized I had been very careless in my phrasing. I do think that while in an MLM and listening to their brainwashing, one loses critical thinking and that many of the drones are idiots — not because they don’t have a high IQ, but because their thinking processes have been remapped to prevent them from thinking. I have a personal issue there because the MLM drones that can’t think critically remind me too much of an ex-fiancee, so I do have to admit that some personal baggage led me to make the comments I did without clarifying.

So, just to try to help, people here are quite capable of understanding when you’ve made a misstatement and that there was a disconnect between the intended meaning and the written statement.

I’ve only been on this forum for a little while

but I’ve already rubbed a few people up the wrong way by suggesting that the idea that ‘evil MLM does awful things to perfectly healthy innocent, good people’ is itself instrumental in how and why MLM keeps dragging people into its maw.


Because from that point of view, you don’t have to change. MLM does. OK – you’re entitled to see it that way.

But for a minute, just imagine (however unpleasant this is) that there WAS something about you that made you susceptible to MLM. If that were true but your ‘innocent victim’ point of view shielded you from looking at it, you’d never change it and you’d remain vulnerable to exploitation by MLM / NW opportunities.

Whatever your reaction to my post, we can probably agree that in principle your bad experiences in MLM either DO have something to do with you or they DON’T.

Trust me, I’m as anti-MLM as any of you. In my view, if MLM is evil, its not because it takes innocent, sweet people and abuses them, it’s because it takes damaged, needy people and exploits them.

Believing that MLM came along and destroyed your otherwise healthy self-esteem is – in my view – a form of denial that keeps you vulnerable, and our society from seeing exactly how and why MLM is so destructive.

The same argument, btw applies to alcohol, drugs, cigarettes, gambling, porn – you name it.

Replacing Amway / Quixtar with ‘cocaine trade’ in the original quote might be thought- provoking:

‘ All in all, the cocaine trade is a very evil organization bening run by a few hand-selected evil people who have trapped hundreds of thousands of unspecting good people and brainwashed them into thinking their only way out of a failed lifestyle is cocaine’

Unless Amway and Quixtar and the rest of the deceptive cult has changed drastically in the last year

So, writing a letter to them will do nothing, but writing a letter to the Attorney General’s office will get their attention fast. Upon my giving notice of leaving Quixtar/Amway I was immediately and completely cut off from any and all communication with any of the members.
The person who sigend me up and the ones who trained me were all told they could no longer communicate with me be cause my “negative” quitter attitude would cause them all fail, too. I find it very strange how one little “quitter” like me could ruin so many people, but their brainwashing teaches that it WILL happen. I went as high as Dick Wilson, the regional leader of the area and received 10 minute phone yelling lecture where I was told to “shut up” numerous times and was called “stupid”, “loser”, “quitter”, “a pathetic example of a Christian” and my wife’s illness was ridiculed, mocked and was even blamed on me. I contacted Amway/Quixtar headquarters and was assured I would receive a refund, but after a month received nothing. I had already written the Attorney General’s office and turned them in for the cons they were, and about a week later my letter got results. I was called by Quixtar and told how it was all a misunderstanding and offered a refund.
The refund came in parts and I still had to make an additional call to get them to quit billing me for their brainwashing CD’s, but after a year I finally got my full refund back, short of one cent. Since then I have made that one cent the most expensive penny they ever kept. I have and will continue to tell everyone about what Quixtar and Amway are like and have successful stopped at least a few people from going through the misery I did. You can not play nice with these people. Never threaten them with anything legal or not legal. Never tell the enemy your plan of attack.
Just take action as fast and as hard as you can against them and when they contact you, demand only your refund and back and talk no more to them.
They wish only to get you to back down or trap you into a comment admitting some or all of the fault is yoiurs. All in all Amway/Quixtar is a very evil organization bening run by a few hand-selected evil people who have trapped hundreds of thousands of unspecting good people and brainwashed them into thinking their only way out of a failed lifestyle is Amway. Hit ’em fast and hard, grab your money back and get away from them as fast as possible. I know all this from first hand experience.

If you write a letter to the Amway Corporation

Please, telling them you have chosen NOT to be an IBO, they will refund their share of your application fee. They’re really good about that.

Their main headquarters is:
Amway Corporation
7575 East Fulton
Ada, Michigan USA 40301

But I’m sure if you look over your information, you can find a “local” address for the Corporation. Just make sure it says “Amway”.

You possibly paid more than Amway’s fee to some sort of Motivational Group – the group your sponsor is in. They *might* refund your money – but will probably pressure you to stay in. Just tell them you’ve sent your letter of resignation to the Amway Corporation; and they will go away.


I can’t give you any advice but I imagine you have already determined you can’t get to him for any legal shenanigans. I know a MLM scammer who went to the pen for a few years in a real estate fraud. If he is vulnerable financially then that is where to hit him.
Especially if he is one of these “Christians” who think they can claim what is ‘rightfully theirs’. I absolutely hate cults and I detest the people who use religion to make their ‘residual income’.

Need advice

I am getting ready to write a ” little” letter to my company..requesting that I be moved to a different sponsor and I want to take my downline with me…
I have extensive documentation of all what my monstorsponsor has done ( for a couple of years to be exact) and I have 6 people willing to come forward and tell their story…2 are a peer of significant other also works for a high up politition in federal government and I have 2 sisters who are attorneys and one sister who “is in with” the attorney generals office;
I am trying to be a little vague you never know who may read this… let me say I would not do this if I did not feel it would be successful.. however I do know that it is going to be the decision of the higher ups… my questions is this…
how can I phrase the letter to say… I just want to “do” my little let me change.. if I can’t change then I am going to drag all the people in my influential orbet and not make nice..
I really dont want to say it…but I want them to know it…
have I been clear…???
all advice is appreciated…
and yes I have thought about quitting..and still may.. but I want this montersponsor to get what he deserves…

I was reading my friends posts

and I just had to say that I recently realized that the mlm I was formerly in, wanted me to be their next “poster child”. Their next bread winner, well they made me feel that way. I was prepped and had some more time spent, (not as much as I wanted at the time), than others in my upline’s downline. I was recently told this by someone I tried to sign up(in the past) and my former signee. I’m still not sure the reason, but I guess they thought I was to nice to say “no”. They put so much pressure on me to succeed, that I just wanted to back out. It was over done. The attention in the beginning was appealing that they gave me, but over a short time, it wore off like a basic sales pitch. I guess they thought I was attention starved, well, they where wrong. They never let up or gave me a break. If you see someone you know constantly saying how great they are being treated in an mlm, just wait until they make “one false move”, then they will get dumped like a hot potatoe. It’s only a matter of time. My first upline was 3 months, before I got the boot. My second downline, was about the same.

I asked my former upline, why do they do this when it happened, and she said “even I got the boot and had to work my way back into the circle”. I thought that was severe and kinda weird. To controlling in my opinion. It’s all surface stuff. They will only help you with your mlm biz. They are not your friends. They are only comrads in the mlm biz with you. That is my lesson that I learned. The friendships were faked. That is almost worse than taking thousands of dollars from me, in my opinion. At least, I came out with my dignity still in tack.
Now the one mlm that I was involved with is going to England and other European countries. I hope they are on this site, and we can warn them!

Page 2 of 3

Powered by WordPress & Theme by Anders Norén